Marty’s Rathbun’s Marching Orders – Sig Interviews

A few weeks ago I had the pleasure of interviewing a new old friend of mine who has decided to join forces with us and handle the squirrel known as Marty Rathbun.

Like a few of the other people you will find on this site, she joined the squirrels for a while.  A few months ago however she decided that all was not as it seemed on that side of the fence.

Here is the transcription from the point at which the pleasantries were over and we started talking in earnest.

I have skipped the part about why she joined them.  She acknowledges that it was her own out-ruds and false purposes that predisposed her to being susceptible to the lies she bought into.

. . .

Joe:  Well Sig, we have covered the Whys and Wherefores of your having joined the squirrels and deciding to support Marty.  What did you do about that decision?

Sig:  Well, I contacted him by email and arranged to go and see him at the Shack.  That was the first Shack he had.  He moved to another Shack after that and then to the current one.  I didn’t want to have any auditing from him – that’s not why I went.   I wanted to understand what he was all about and I especially wanted to know about what the future would be for me if I did leave the Church.  I wanted to know how he was going to ensure that Scientology would always be around, and most of all, that he would not disrespect LRH.

Joe:  And what did you find – when was that by the way?

Sig:  I am going to be vague about some things.  I don’t want Marty to know who I am just yet, as I fear for my safety.  He is a violent person, and when you are with him . . . if you challenge him at all, you become aware of that fact and that he has some serious issues just below the surface.  All I will say is that it was the first shack.  He moved into the second shack around September/October 2009 and I was at that one more than the first one.  It was really quite a desolate feeling.

Joe:  That’s fine.  So, how did the meeting go?

Sig:  He picked me up from the airport in Corpus Christie.  He was late arriving which I thought was a bit rude, because we had arranged it all before hand, but he wasn’t there.  I called him and he said, “Oh, it’s landed then.”  The plane landed on time, so I don’t know what game he was playing.   Anyway, I waited outside until he rolled up in a truck.  I recognized him instantly – older and fatter than when I had known him in the Church, but then so am I.

He interrogated me most of the way back to his place.  When did I leave, why, what do I do, what does my husband do?  He wanted to know about the kids.  He was looking for holes in my story and to check if I was a plant.

I though he was very paranoid.  It was weird.  But I obviously passed the test, and then he chilled out and became pretty candid and unreserved.

My main concern was, and is, LRH.   LRH is my friend.  I won’t have a bad word said about him.   I didn’t really care about the rest, but LRH is my stable datum.  I wanted to work out where Marty really was in regards to LRH – not what he said but really where he was at – and I wanted to know how he figured he could do what he was doing and not harm LRH.

While Marty assured me that he was 100% behind LRH, what he then said to me floored me.  I remember it like he said it to me 5 minutes ago – it’s one of those things that just sticks in the mind.

I feel kind of stupid talking about this, because looking at it now, I should have just walked right then.  Right there he told me everything I needed to know about him.  His judgment, his sanity, his purposes, it was all there really.

Joe:  Things are often a little clearer with hindsight, and you are now doing the right thing, so . . . what did he say?

Sig:  Well, OK.  We had just climbed out of the truck and were about to walk up to the Shack, and with a look that he must have thought represented sincerity, Marty stopped and turned to me, and earnestly proclaimed, “If LRH came back now he’d take one look at the Church and then proceed to destroy it.”

I was flabbergasted.  I asked him how he came to that conclusion.  His answer . . . delivered with a straight face and no hint that he was joking .  .  . was even more astounding.

“If LRH was standing right here beside us he’d be 23 years old now.  He’d have tattoos on his arms, a ring in his nose and other piercings.  He’d be wearing torn jeans and a T-shirt.  He’d have been in trouble with the law, in jail a few times already, and would most likely have tried all kind of drugs.  He’d have an illegitimate kid or two and he’d look over what the Church is today and would say, “That not what I had mocked up.  That is not Scientology.   Destroy it.  We need to start over and do it right this time”.”

“How’d you work that one out?” I asked him.

“LRH is an adventurous guy.  He would have been in trouble with the authorities and done things – like I just said.  He’d have a rap sheet and he would not even be qualified to have service.

“He’d be exactly the kind of person the Church would not want walking through its door.  What does that tell you about the Church?  Just think about it – the man who developed Scientology would not even be welcome in his own organizations if he came back today.  That is how messed up the organizations are.  And that is why I intend to destroy the Church.  Because that is what he would want.”

There was no doubt in Marty’s mind that this is what LRH would say.  He had convinced himself, and he really believed he had his marching orders from LRH.

I mean, yes, LRH was an adventurer, and, doubtless if he were to arrive back here now he would have had many an adventure.  That bit is kind of true.

But it is only Marty that equates adventure with criminal activity, with drugs, with sleaze.   And I now know that is because someone like Marty sees others as he himself is, and in Marty’s case it is only brushes with the law, excessive alcohol and cheating that let him know that he is alive.

It still gets me now.  I mean, how does he accomplish this amazing mental leap from “LRH is an adventurous person” to “LRH would be an illegal PC and so we need to destroy the Church.”

What’s wrong with having an adventure as a child or teenager where you tame wild broncos, where you encounter a bear, where you start a successful business, where you sail across some dangerous seas?  Is the young man who climbs an unassailable mountain not adventurous because he doesn’t have a nut and bolt in his nose?  Is some kid who has a rivet in his neck really a leader of men because of that?

Joe:  So what did you say to him?

Sig:  I said I did not agree with him at all.  I said that LRH wrote the policies that created the Churches and the management structure, and I was sure that he would not want the Churches destroyed.

I could see that LRH might want policy applied if it was not being applied in a certain area, in fact, that is what he would demand.  Perhaps he might want to fine tune something – that would not be unlikely to me, he did rearrange things every now and again.  I mean the orgs evolved and changed, as did org boards, and structures.  But I could not see how he would ever want the orgs closed – ever.  That is just exactly the opposite of what he always said about orgs.

Joe:  And . . .

Sig:  I know.  It is stupid.  I said that already.  I should have just walked.  But I tried to handle him, to argue with him.  But it got nowhere.  He insisted that the Church was so screwed up that nothing could be done to handle it and the ONLY handling was to destroy it and start over.   My mistake, and I see it now and I should have seen it then, was to try to reason with insanity.  I learned years before as an Ethics Officer that you can’t reason with insanity.  I should have known.

Honestly, I have spent in total probably 6 days in Marty’s various houses and every time I have brought up LRH and my disagreements with what he is doing to him, and he just comes up with reasons why it is OK.

I have finally realized that it is a ser fac with him.  I think there is a reference that says that ser facs and evil purposes are close cousins of one another, don’t know for sure, but I do know that is what is going on with Marty.  Ser facs or ev purps or both probably.  But he is locked into this idea, is convinced he is right, and from there proceeds to make everyone else wrong unless they agree with him.

This ser facs point is an interesting thing I noticed.   He told me about how, when he had completed his training at the Ship – you know that he was sent there after he blew the first time right? – well according to him he had this huge cognition about ser facs and when he got back to Int  he told COB about this cognition of his about how this is the key lost technology that needed to be applied.

. . . . .

I am going to cut this off here.

The ser fac story, Marty’s ideas on sec checks, his ideas on Policy and so on all make fascinating reading and provide unique insights into the strange world of Marty Rathbun – the practitioner of deception, distortion and outright hallucination.   But they are for next time.